Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

Bombay, India
22 December 1976 

Now the question is for a modern man whether to believe that there are spirits or not. Because it’s a very unknown area, and the unknown area, unless and until it is fully explored and found out, always creates a hallucination that it is something divine. So, we have to know even about spirits — who are they, how they act and how they work out. Now many will say that ‛We do not believe in spirits.“ Whether you believe it or not but they are there. Christ was not a liar, He took out spirits and put them in the pig and He is the man who clearly said that ‛Keep away from the spirits.“

The spirits are the people. We can be spirits tomorrow if we want to be. When we die, we do not die fully. Only the element of earth which has created us for appearance for which we can say the (unclear) is a gross form. That portion only dies, the rest of it remains and it goes into an area which we call as preta lok where it starts becoming smaller and smaller. Till it comes to the size of a fetus, or you can say a very small fetus. It waits there. But some of the people when they die, they are dissatisfied souls. In Sanskrit we call them as apruktab, means in life they have been hankering after things too much and they couldn’t get to their goals and they died.

For example, a mother dies during labor pains. Her child is born; she sees the child and dies. She is worried about looking after that child. A father dies suddenly in an accident. His children are left behind and he is worried about his children they’re looked after. There are some people who are very ambitious in life — very, very ambitious — and they die before fulfilling their ambitions. They also become spirits. There are people who have been tortured and troubled and killed. They also die and they don’t want to live in the preta loka but they want to trouble the people who have troubled them.

So, there are types and types of people who become spirits. We can divide them into two types. One type is the one which is very aggressive, ambitious, egoistical, oppressive person who dies and becomes a spirit. That area is known as the supraconscious area. So many gurus and sadhus who renounce the world and go to the Himalayas and break their necks and do all kinds of frantic things, which we call as ravini pranayam, when they die without realization they also are on the supraconscious side, and they remain on the right hand side of the human being.

On the left hand side, human being — because human being is a reflection or we can say is the same microcosm of the macrocosm, which is the Virata — hence they are reflected on the right hand side of the Virata and so we should say that they are available on our right hand side.

The other ones we can say that they belong to the category of the people who are suppressed, who are oppressed, who are tortured, who are troubled, who are debased, who are insulted. Such people when they die they want to take their revenge by their sly methods. So they remain on the left hand side of the Virata and thus are reflected in us also in the collective subconscious, which is on the left hand side. Basically these are the two types of people who are becoming spirits. But there can be a mixture, there can be every type of a spirit. There could be good spirits also, good people who are trying to only help their families and things like that.

These spirits try to manifest. For example, the supraconscious type spirits. There was a doctor in London who died. His name was Dr. Lang. When he died he had discovered lots of things and he wanted to continue with his practice in London and he was a surgeon, but he could not do it because he suddenly died. So his spirit entered into a soldier who was living in, who was fighting in Vietnam and when the spirit entered into him and told him that ‛I’m such and such doctor, you must go and meet my son and my brother and tell them that I am within you.“ The soldier could not believe it but they said that ‛You come alone with me and I’ll guide you to that place.“ And he took him to that hospital where this doctor was working. The hospital was closed, the surgery was closed, so he went and saw the son and he told him about the spirit entering into his body. The son could not believe it. So he said that ‛I will tell you all the secrets of our life that we spent together and which no one knows.“ And when he started telling him all these things he was amazed, he said, ‛All right, I’ll open the center.“ So they opened a very big news organization known as Late Dr. Lang’s International Curative Center in London.

Now this organization started working long time back, about I think eleven or twelve years back. Actually, I came to know about it because somebody who was suffering from the treatment of one of these people, she came to Me and she told Me all about this and she gave me a pamphlet in which they had written all this story about Dr. Lang. And what they used to say that

 ‛You should write to us about your illness whatever it is, and when you write to us then we will organize it in such a way that at such a time, at such a point, at such a place — whichever place you suggest — something will happen to you, you’ll start shaking in the body and you’ll get those spirits into you and you’ll be cured.“

It happened with this lady, the one who came to Me first when she told Me. Then afterwards that I met many of them, even in England I’ve met some of them. So, when she came to Me you see what was her trouble was she said that ‛I had some troubles.“ I think she had some minor trouble which was cured but was very inconvenient thing for her — sort of a, it was a nonsense, the trouble was. She was definitely cured with that. But after say five, six years or so, she started, you see, shaking her body completely, her nervousness was so much that she couldn’t see Me. When she sat before Me she started shaking, her hands started shaking, body started shaking as if a lunatic would do that before Me.

So I told her, ‛See this gentleman has come from lunatic asylum and he is behaving the same way as you are behaving.“

She says, ‛I know because I have a pain here I have a problem here and I know there’s something wrong. I am not thinking properly and I cannot remember anything. I am a lost soul and I know what has happened to me.

 Now what can You do about it?“

Of course I then cured her no doubt, because in Sahaja Yoga you can. Through vibrations of love, this Divine Love which I told you yesterday. You can give a bondage to those spirits. By that bondage, you can make that bondage pass into the preta loka and they disappear. But some of these are controlled by some of these ambitious, so-called gurus. Now these so-called gurus that you know of, so called, they call themselves gurus, what do they do? They go, you see, if they find some evil genius dies somewhere they know he is evil genius then they follow his body they go to smasha they try to collect part of his body and they keep it with them.

Now the spirit till thirteen days moves around the body and it starts watching what is the body doing. So, when the spirit, you see, sees that his own part of his body which is to form again his own body later on is missing through these people and they will be doing something so it appears before them and they know how to talk. It’s easy to talk. Even ordinary spirit person if he comes here, I can make them talk and they talk quite a lot all kinds of nonsense, and they also tell about these people what these people have been doing.

So that spirit then, you know, is captured by these people and they start using these supraconscious spirits. These people being crooked and very intelligent people, they start acting into their hands. Now these spirits are given some names, like they can call them Ram, Krishna. Some people say Aim, some say Rim, some say Klim — all goddesses names, you see, they can even give the name of Jesus or something like that. So, what happens that when these, when you go to these gurus then when you ask them they say, ‛we’ll give you a mantra.“ Now you think that the mantra giving is a very great thing.

You see so many people will come and tell Me in Marathi also Maharashtrans are special ones for this that [Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi]. After all a mantra can be given [Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi]. Why do you need a guru to tell you this? Use your brains.

Now they go on saying Ram and this fellow is already connected them with the Ram whom they have appointed to get into this fellow. So, the Ram enters into the psyche of this person. Mostly it is through this Agnya Chakra, which I told you yesterday I described the whole Kundalini and its places and everything. So it enters through this into the psyche. When it enters into the psyche on the right hand side, you see on the ego side it enters in and it starts making the man very egoistical. He’ll beat his wife, he’ll beat his children, he’ll rage and try to show off.

Sometimes such a man might get a promotion and he’ll become so dynamic, he will, people will say, ‛Oh, what has happened to him?“ And sort of his attention which was spent in doing other things will be diverted to very ambitious style of work. Now becomes very ambitious, but he has no dharma in him, no love in him, no compassion in him but he becomes a very so-called successful man for a short time. But after, I’ve met many like them in Delhi also, those who have been initiated like that by paying quite a lot of money to these swamis and sadhus and before Me they were just rattling like this and they said, ‛Mataji, this is such a lot we are rattling before You, but even if we take a, even if we burn an agarbatti in the name of God Virat we can’t go near a temple, we can’t go near a church. If we see anything of God we started rattling like this.“ And they all have resigned from their jobs and are settled down as useless people. This has happened to them within five, six years time. Young people, very young.

In Singapore I met one fellow. No, not — Kolhapur. You would not believe he is only twenty-two years of age and he is like that. And this is the supraconscious style — they call it transcendental thought. This is the trance they use. So just by giving you one name. You must also see, after all you cannot call like that your God the Almighty by just a name. How can you call Him? Is He your servant? ‛Rama, come along.“ Can you call it like this? ‛You do my job, You look after my father, You look after my mother.“ Who are you? Are you entitled to call like that? And can you just tell Him that ‛You have to, You better look after everything that I tell You otherwise I’ll give You up. I have no faith in You.“ The man in his ego starts thinking these nonsensical things. You have to surrender to God. You have to become one with Him. You have to be authorized. Then only you can ask His help.

The another supraconscious people are another type of, they work out in this way that you see these people are the hatha yogis, so called hatha yogis because I call them neo hatha yogis. They are not real yogis. The real hatha yogis never stay with the human, normal, what you call them, citizens of a city or a village. They stay in the forest with gurus. In the Patangali Shastra who is the original writer of hatha yoga, he has told there are six things a hatha yogi has to do. He has to stay in the jungle with a guru who is a realized soul and he does not have to lead a married life, he has to be a brahmacharya, a celibate person. And he has to do six things together in that: meditation is there, pranayam, pratyahar, yama, niyam. All these things means he has to regulate his life; he has to lead a very chaste and holy life. It is not meant for people who are householders. Here now for fashion sake the hatha yoga has come to all the people and all hatha yogis such get heart trouble. Yes, they do. I’ve met a doctor here, you might be knowing him also very well, he was a well known doctor and he was preaching hatha yoga and he had a heart trouble and he was a heart specialist. And when I met him I told him ‛Doctor, be careful about your heart. You are catching on your heart.’ He said, ‛How can that be? I’ve taken my cardiograph.“ I said ‛Doctor, be careful and don’t do this hatha yoga.“ Because it is an extreme type of a sadhana, which is to be done with a person who can balance you, where no other energy is exhausted but only thing it is just done for the sadhana and your guru works it out. It is done by very few people. But nowadays everybody wants to become a cinema actor and a cinema actress. Every girl wants [unclear] flirty shapes that are described in the beauty contest. I tell you these proportions are absolutely satanic. I’ve read those proportions. They are not the proportions of Goddesses or of Gods. These proportions that are described in these beauty contest things are absolutely of dirty women. These proportions if they exist in any human being, only bad vibrations will come out. That’s why you must have seen once they win that test than you have seen how they become funny.

These are all human conceptions but all the human conceptions are such foolish things that they do not know that they are playing into the satanic forces. The idea about cinema actresses you see all (unclear). Even in London even ninety-year-old women want to be actresses. Are they mad? They don’t want to be mothers. And then they will do all kinds of dieting, torture their husbands and they will – I don’t know what they are up to.

You have to be good wives, decent wives. You have to be good mothers first of all. You are married women. You are not actresses. And the husbands also want to be actors or what I don’t know that they are at hatha yog. They want to make their body very perfect in those dimensions that they are described. Who said that these dimensions are the best? I mean these days when you see men they don’t look like men and women don’t look like women. Women have started looking like men or like horses and men have started looking like women. It’s a vicious system. We have to be women in the full way and men have to be men in the full way.

You have heard about Shivaji Ranapratab. This is their personality. You see all the descriptions of these personalities going to drop down like anything when you see these actors and actresses, teeny-leeny people, somebody slaps them once on the face, the husband fall down dead and the wife she is running away with another men. All sorts of things going wrong in this ghor Kali Yuga.

This is only you are playing into the satanic forces. Nothing else. But these, I tell you, these supra-conscious people are teaching you all this. Then there are people of extreme nature, women specially, who are patiprata, you see, they are also nonsensical people because you see they think they love their husband, the whole God must fall after them. Of course patiprata is a powerful personality. But she has to be a realized person, otherwise she is not realized and she is all the time making the husband, you see, a noose around his head, all the time and using God for it. It’s absurd! She must allow all the freedom to the man. To man to understand the complete play of life. These women also when they die, you see, they are afraid that their husband might marry somebody else or whatever it is. They sit on the husband’s head only.

Then the mothers, some of the mothers who are so much involved and selfish and self centered, only love their own children. They said, ‛He is the only son I have. She is the only daughter I have.“ So what is that mean? Why are you so misidentified? How many times you have been born in this world? How many children you have had before? Why are you so much involved into it, so much misidentified? That does not mean that you kick your children. Either they will kick their children or they will be absolutely downtrodden by the children. This is the extreme type of temperament. Normal people who love their children, love other children also, live in a normal way — normal, pious married life, don’t run after other men and don’t run after other women.

These normal people when they die they go to preta loka and then they are born again as good people and they, if they are born today they get Realization. There are types and types and types. I don’t want to waste your time and My time describing these horrid people. But on the other side on the left hand side — the debased and the sly and the hoprid and the murderers and all of there are — these are alother type. What these people try to do? You see sometimes they will do some sly thing. But when these people enter, these debased ones when they enter into your psyche you become lunatic or mad or something happens. They teach you all kinds of things. They’ll teach you how to drink, to take to drugs, to do this thing, or if you are taking drinks they’ll enter into you, because they are drunkards so they want to drink more, so they will drink.

You’ll be amazed, you won’t believe that in Cuba I met a lady. She was a very dainty darling and she told Me that she can take one whisky neat, one full bottle. I mean I can’t even look at that bottle the way she showed Me. I said, ‛How do you manage that?“ And her husband said, ‛Really. It is true. Sometimes she does it.“ So she says, ‛You know, there’s a very big, huge negro who enters into my body and then he drinks, not I.“ She sees him coming inside this body.

So, these type of people are the other side on the left hand side. Now, there are mixture types. Some of them, you see they are the people who believe in God and they haven’t found God and they have worked very hard sort of people. So, they try to give you little sometimes assurances.

For example, yesterday one lady came and she told Me, ‛Mataji, suddenly I found that there were some chanas lying in my house. I thought they must have been given by Mataji. So, I ate them and I got cured. I said, ‛Am I mad to give you chanas and diamonds and this and that?“ And there are some gurus also who are working out the so called materialization. This is nothing, you see sometimes you find in Bombay, now you find that suddenly your something is missing. Most of the missing things you’ll find there and these are the things they passing out to people like this, come alone, in Yaduve.

It is, it is a spirit, you see, transparent. It is not opaque thing, you cannot see it. So it comes round, picks up anything it feels like and it goes away and it just disappears and it goes and it can also give it to some people there. And this is all the vidya of spirit. Now, how are you to know that this is spirit and not God? Only ask one question: ‛What is the interest of God in giving us all these nonsensical things which we are going to leave here only?“ When we die all our diamonds, all our ornaments, everything is going to lie down here. So why should God give us these things? Is He mad? You see, if He loves you, He will give you the highest, the eternal, the greatest, the one that is promised in all the scriptures. And you read all the scriptures. Do you find this kind of a nonsense anywhere that Krishna came and He brought out some rings and gave it to somebody? He did not. I mean, it can be done by Him. If He wants to do it, He can do anything. But He is not going to steal things. So this kind of supra-conscious spirits and [unclear]. But it’s nothing important for us because one exists in the future and another exists in the past.

We have to be conscious of the present, present moment, and this is what Sahaja Yoga is. That now at this moment, you must understand the dynamics of this moment, the spontaneity of this moment. So, now people will say, ‛Then that means, Mataji, You don’t believe in planning.“ I do not. I do not believe in human planning at all. Because when human beings plan you know what is the mess it creates. Everywhere in the whole world wherever there have been planners, what has been? I’ll give you a simple example. You plan a wedding A to Zed. Now, you’ll find suddenly when the bridegroom has to come from this place to that place something will happen and he won’t move. He may have to go to the bathroom, maybe he wants to meet his mother, he will be emotionally tied up, maybe his mother will come there and she might start crying. If you want to make it a living marriage, then you should not plan in such detail. You must allow the spontaneity, the blessing of God to work out.

In London, I’ll give you one example, you see I do not plan out much and I don’t bother so much about this planning out. Today we wanted to come here very early. These people said we must reach there at six thirty. I was just laughing. I knew when I had to reach I would do it because whatever they may try we cannot (unclear). And I just could not. So why then? Because I know that we were not going to reach there. Of course, I mean today supposing I have to go tomorrow, so I have to just buy the ticket for tomorrow. It’s all right. There’s no planning. That is to be done today. But A to Zed you start planning everything and suddenly you find this is missing and the whole thing goes wrong.

Let the spontaneity — at least in human relationships, because you are such planners you cannot do everything else. But human relationships, at least, try the spontaneity to work out. Now in the Western countries people are understanding the value of spontaneity, but they are stupid people, they don’t know how to harness it. I cannot even tell you to what stupidity they go. If I tell you, you won’t believe. There are small children, otherwise I would have told you. It is impossible to believe how stupid they are that they believe in the spontaneity and the kind of spontaneity they have got.

All developing countries are now developing to be the developed country but we must also see in what [unclear] these developing countries are. They are stupid people. They are all right as far as their work is concerned — they are all in time, their things are all clean, spick and span. But if you see their families are broken out. Stupidity to such a limit. A 90-year-old woman having a love affair with a 19 year-old man, and on the front page their love letters are posted so everyone should read it. That is [unclear] and all the men thinking this great Romeo and Juliet going on. Stupid, absolutely stupid. When you talk to them you’ll find them such stupid people. They don’t know where to look and what to say. You have no idea to what extent they have gone in stupidity. Of course they have Cadillacs and they have big cars and they have big houses. But sometimes I feel it is donkeys living inside these beautiful houses. In certain matters they are absolutely stupid. In certain matters, absolutely we are crooked. They are innocent simpletons but they are stupid people. We are crooked. Now that point I’ll touch later on.

So, let us see now that how these two types of spirits enter into us, into our psyche. They can enter through this, they turn this. They turn this portion and put inside. Now what happens with that, with the spirit? There are some like Ravan was there who could only with speech he could make people naked absolutely. We have got one here exactly the same type, if he goes on giving speech people start taking out their clothes. Now just think how stupid we are not to think, ‛By taking out clothes are we going to go near God?“ I mean what sort of a logic is this? When we take our bath, we are all naked, are we nearer God by that? All sorts of absurd things are being taught and people are accepting. Thousands of people. In your great Bombay there are so many intellectuals are there doing such silly, stupid things.

Then you’ll find lots and lots of people just organize. For what? ‛Oh, there is some gentleman has come, you know, h speaks very well and this thing and he is very good at this and he is a very great speaker.“

‛What does he speak?“

‛He speaks about how Radha and Krishna loved each other.“

Very good idea. You can have free cabaret and you can have free discourses on all the nonsensical things debasing God Himself. All these things are so interesting to human being. Are they really seeking the truth? Are they really asking the reality? They will never read Shankaracharya. Yesterday I told you. They will never go and find out what Markandeya had to say, they have time to find out what Jesus has to say about it. They do not know what Mohamed Sahib has said. Nanak Sahib said so many things, Kabira has said so many things. They are all fools. These wise have come from somewhere to teach us about all these satanic methods that they want to employ on us. So be aware. Be careful. This is the ghor Kali Yuga. All these satanic forces are acting. Krishna has said that ‛Whenever there is need, to reestablish the Dharma and to kill the dishtas and to save the Saddhus, I am born again and again. [unclear] find who is the Saddhu and who is the bhoot? It is such a mixture! Satan has entered into all the Saddhus and Saddhus are absolutely in a conflict.

This what Kali Yuga is. It’s a very delicate matter. So in our own being, as I said it, on the right hand side is the supra-conscious area and on the left-hand side is what we call as the collective subconscious. Nearer your own being is the subconscious on the left hand side which we call as the psyche part where we store everything that is dead of this life and past life. And on the right hand side is the pre-conscious mind which we call as Mana by which we — I don’t know, Mana is also very confusing thing, but English word is better, is pre-conscious mind, with which we plan and with which we think and this body is maintained through our right hand side power. In the center we have got the evolutionary power. By this power only we have evolved, which is the conscious mind. This moment, now, at this moment. We can say that the past and future cross like that and in the center is the point.

 We can say like this that the past, the future and the past they pass like this in the center and they pass out. So the thoughts from the past come to the future and the future to the past, but they cannot stay at conscious. For example I say, ‛ Now. At this moment. Stop it!“ You cannot. Why? Because of thoughts. The thought rises, goes up and falls down and disappears like that. Again another though rises and again falls on this side. Now you can see the rising of the thoughts, but you cannot see the falling of the thoughts. In between the two thoughts there is a little gap known as Vilamba in the Sanskrit language. That is the point of conscious mind. The thoughts can come from the supra-conscious side or can come from the collective subconscious, can even come from the pre-conscious or can even come from the subconscious. That’s how the thoughts waves are.

 But if you have to jump into the conscious mind itself, now at this moment, you cannot do it because at that point there is no thought. I am not telling you all these things of My own because this has been already discovered by many psychologists. That one has to jump into thoughtless awareness, not into the so-called trance but into awareness which you are completely aware but inside there is silence. Now this silence has been described by all the scriptures. And while jumping into that even the psychologists so many of them said that you jump into an unconscious mind which — unconscious which is not going to (unclear), achetanma, which is collectively conscious, which is universal.

 For example, we can say Jung, one of the greatest psychologists and I respect him very much. He has done a lot of work on the unconscious and he has taken many years to experiment on thousands and thousands of people to find out how the unconscious works through dreams and symbols. Now he has found out many symbols appear in the dreams. For example a triangle like this appears in a dream of one man, pointing downward. Invariably in all the cases wherever such a dream has appeared, such a man has murdered someone. Or if the triangle is just upside down, means the top is the pointer then invariably all these people who saw this in the dream and reported to him, they were murdered.

 There are many such things he has found out. He also found out another thing about the Universal Unconscious, that it always gives you a balance, by different experiments. Now the medical science people have found out many things which they cannot answer. I told you already that they have found out that acetylcholine and adrenalin which act through the parasympathetic and the sympathetic nervous system, they act very funnily in the body and they don’t know how they are controlled by whom and why they act. They say the mode of action of these two chemicals is not known. That means one thing is sure — that they cannot explain. So, we have to think why — why a chemical should react separate, different? Because there is a deity sitting within. There is a deity, a living deity that handles the chemicals in the way that it likes.

 The other day also I asked you a question — a medical person if you go and ask him, ‛If everything, every foreign body is thrown out the body how is a fetus is accepted, not only that but nurtured in the body?“ So we should know that there is a unconscious Universal Being which is being accepted by many people in the West. And that’s why they say, ‛Let the unconscious look after, let us have the spontaneity, let it work out spontaneously.“ But they cannot, they are so complicated now.

 They have such an analytical mind that they will go on analyzing and they cannot allow the spontaneity to work out. They are trying all their methods to work out the spontaneity, but somebody has to give an impetuous, has to give that triggering as you can say. Because through rationality, if you want to jump into unconscious, you cannot. Rationality is a very limited stuff. If you want to go to something unlimited and universal, which is collectively conscious, then you have to learn to be unlimited yourself. Now how will you do it? Somebody has to trigger it. You see a light, a dheep, which is not yet lighted, it is a limited stuff. But when you light it, it becomes unlimited. But for lightning this light you have to take another light near it. When you bring another light near it, it doesn’t do, it’s just like a catalytic agent. It just touches this and it starts burning. It gets unlimited light. The light becomes unlimited with a limited dheep. In the same way somebody has to trigger this.

 I give a very, I should say, a contemporary or a very modern example which is very simple for people to understand. You see in our houses we have seen all these Bombay gas lights, we have seen there’s a little flicker going on. Nobody can see that. In the same way in the heart there is the Spirit, the reflection of God that is there and the flow of the gas is stopped, is kept ready. In the same way in you the Kundalini is kept there and somebody has to open that and when that is just opened, the Kundalini rises and meets that flicker and the light spreads, and this is what happens when the light spreads that the vibrations start coming.

 That you jump into your unconscious awareness, means you become a different personality. As I told you, you are a computer but you are not a working computer. Once you are connected with the mains, you become a computer which is giving information. Suddenly, you start feeling on your fingers all these things. You start feeling what is, what are the centers on the other person, what are not working. And these centers as I explained to you yesterday have all the physical, mental and emotional sides which they control and you can make out what’s wrong with the person. You can cure them also by giving them these vibrations. So, through this computer now you get information, you give information and also you can correct, you can execute also information. Now our computers that we have they cannot execute.

 [remarks in Hindi]. Please, you see, lecturing about Divine has been done by many. I’m talking about actualization, you become that. Now always people say that ‛how can it be possible Mataji?“ I mean I cannot understand this question. Supposing I say there is a diamond lying here. Will you ask such a question? You’ll immediately come pick it up. I mean, you don’t have to lose anything by this. You’re not paying Me anything. It is all free. By doing this you have seen here people have been cured. But once you get it, fifty percent of you will feel very happy, go home and say, ‛All right, forget it.“ One or two will criticize [unclear]. “We didn’t feel anything,“ as if they are very great people, if they haven’t got it then there’s something wrong with them. They should get it. And fifty percent will think about it, will come again and again, work it out.

 There are now in Bombay some of them very highly placed Sahaja Yogis who are curing people. They have cured cancer. They are very ordinary people. We have one here a teacher in the school and he has cured people who are suffering from elephantiasis, from cancer. So many things he has cured. He is a very, very ordinary person in life. There are so many like that who are doing it. You can also do it. But you are great babus. You are great people. You have no time for all this. When I’ll be no more then you will be beating your heads, I know. ‛I wish we had done something about it.“

 Some of them have definitely learned the art, like I said that ‛There’s a fan here. If I open the fan you’ll get cool breeze.“

 They say, ‛All right. Please open the fan immediately, we want to have it.“ Normally people would say that.

 Then I would say, ‛All right, I’ll open the fan, cool down, now you feel nice?“

 ‛Yes.“

 Then I will tell you how is this fan is made, how the electricity is produced, all the engineering I’ll tell you. But I have also told you a little bit about engineering.

 All people want to listen to lectures. Aren’t you fed up of them? Why don’t you have it? This is the blessing of God. You have to jump into the Kingdom of God and you just see how you’re protected, how you are looked after. There are seven chakras and all the seven blessings are bestowed upon you with a stroke. We have here people who have been nothing in life, after Sahaja Yoga — even this one I will give you as a, as a little chocolate over the castor oil, like they say, that they’re also very much improved materially because it is Lakshmi who is sitting in the Nabhi. This may appeal to many in India, that Lakshmi is cured and you improve even materially. People get promotions, they become this, that. One example is our Dr. Nagensi. He got his Realization and see where he has got. Many people like that. He is a Sahaja Yogi. So many people are Sahaja Yogis who have achieved things in life, but they are busy people, some of them are. But if you could devote a little time for sadhana, and if you come here and see for yourself and give more, then you get more.

 Because why should God give you all the time vibrations when you are not going to use them? There’s a gentleman is sitting here, his son was suffering from too much of drugs. He was a young schoolboy and he was being cheated and poor boy has been tried. He has spent twenty thousand rupees just curing him. People were just giving him drugs to sleep and drugs to sleep, only tranquillizers. And in one day he’s cured and today he’s sleeping nicely without anything. He had brought and showed Me a prescription which he says … (Conversation in Hindi) Four hundred rupees poor man has to shell out. And for what? Not for curing! To make that boy sleep off. I mean that’s also a kind of a drug and that boy is so normal today. But there will be some satanic here who can create problem for you. So, you decide for yourself.

 (Shri Mataji speaks to someone in the audience in Hindi.)

 How one gets it, isn’t it? All right. Sit down. That’s what I’ve been saying that it just works out. It is a spontaneous happening. And now we’ll see one thing, that how does a little seed gets into a tree? It’s a living process. We’ll just say it just works out. It is already there, that’s why it is Sahaja. ‛Saha“ means with, ‛ja“ means born. It is absolutely spontaneous.

 I’m enlightened person, is a fact and when I touch you, you get enlightenment yourself. It’s a very, very simple thing. All right?

 Hmm, another question? It was a nice one, because we always say [unclear].

 (Somebody from the audience asks a question)

 No, no, is wrong. That is always been banned. You see in the olden days also we had people who were misled. That is the history. There are some people, now for example, if we had Hitler that doesn’t mean he’s a praman. If we had somebody like, a satanic force like Saravan, it doesn’t mean that he was praman. For us praman is whatever achieves the maximum. So the praman always remains the best. You see all such people, who say that it gives [unclear] are the people who are tantrikas. And they were all thrown out. These are all known as shubratas. But some of the people who have written books on these things are not themselves realized — have read this book, that book, and then they said that their siddhis are also there. Siddhis are nothing but you move on to your supra-conscious side and when you move on to your supra-conscious side they’ll spread something to you and then what happens you start producing something from your hand.

 We had one lady in our Sahaja Yoga, she came to us and you know when I went to America she started showing all kinds of [Hindi term]. She started telling people that ‛Where is your money’s lost, you can find there.“ Like that. And she became very popular and she used to get one thousand people everyday coming to her and ultimately she started telling them even the number of the hall. So, the supra-conscious things can be like that. ESP. You become an extrasensory perception, [unclear]. And all that is nothing but another spirit.

 But human beings, see, you’ll be surprised from America two great scientists came just to see Me. For what?

 They said, ‛You must teach us how to fly in the air. We want to leave our body.“

 I said, ‛Are you not flying already on our heads, now what do you want to do?“

 They said, ‛No, we want to leave our bodies and fly in the air.“

 So I said, ‛But if I tell you that this is done through the spirits, will you do it?“

 ‛Yes, still we want to do.“

 I said, ‛Why?“

 They said, ‛Because Russians are doing the same so we want to do.“

 [unclear] And they were not, you see. Then I asked them, ‛Who told you?“ They said Patanjali. You know Patanjali? He is a newspaper man and Patanjali – I said, ‛Look at this fellow he came for treatment because he used to get this kind of experience that used to leave his body and came to Me for getting cured and he is telling him, ‘You go to Mataji and She’ll make you that.’“ And these fools, you know, they would not listen to Me.

 So, the knowledge that we have we do not have a proper method of discrimination. We do not know what is absolute knowledge, which is not. For that you must have vibrations. With vibrations now you can ask all those who has realized you can ask, ‛Is there God or not?“ See the answer you’ll get. (Hindi). All answers come and you can record it on your hands even to a small thing. You must hear Pharkay today he was telling Me about this, that when he, some gentleman was somewhere and he said that ‛You just find his vibrations.“ So he put his hands there and he said, ‛Let me see the vibrations,“ and nothing was coming and nothing you could feel and nothing of the chakras. So he then said, ‛He cannot be there because I cannot feel anything. So, this man thought of him, ‛Oh, yes, yes. He must be on the aeroplane, he’s not.“ To such an extent it goes!

 In London there’s one gentleman he said, ‛Mataji, can I feel somebody’s vibrations?“

 I said, ‛You can.“

 ‛Can I feel my father’s?“

 I said, ‛Yes, all right now put your hands and ask a question.“

 Immediately his Vishuddhi chakra started burning. He said, ‛Mother this is burning.“

 I said, ‛You telephone to him just right now. Ask how he is.“

 His mother said, ‛He cannot talk to you, his throat is very bad.“ And the father was very far away. He cannot talk to him, his throat is very bad. His Vishuddhi Chakra is catching. All the information you get on your hand on your vibrations and then when you’ll see all these books you’ll be surprised they’ll be burning your hands. (Hindi) You’ll be amazed that how you find out who is a real guru, and non real guru. It’s so correct with this.

 We have got here a case of one lady. She told Me that somebody came to see her, and I mean somebody came to stay with her, her own brother or someone very near. And she started burning all the time, this and that.

 So she said, ‛Do you go to Satya Sai Baba“?

 He said, ‛No.“

 She said, ‛No, but how can it be? I am getting terrible burning as I get it from a disciple of Sai Baba“ You must have been somewhere. You must have.

 He said ‛I have never been there“. So she said ‛Really“? And she was searching him out and nothing was there. So she had to open his box and in the box there was Satya Sai Baba’s photograph.

 Our Prabhakar is here, you can ask him, why his daughter-in-law was a big problem in London. And they didn’t know how to locate why she was behaving like this and she was giving them burning like that. They opened her purse one day and in the purse was that photograph. The day they throw it away everything is all right, otherwise it was going to be a divorce for nothing at all — the poor lady was vomiting, doing all kinds of things.

 There are so many cases like that. I mean the proof is there. (Hindi) He called us there to some place where there was a center of Sat Sai Baba. He said, ‛Mataji, You must save those people.“

 When I sat there so many children just fainted. Then they told us that ‛These children have been fainting like this. You have to do something about it.“ And so many children are lost. They just go away. God knows how they are lost.

 I told him, ‛Baba, his center, let him look after now. I am fed up.“ What am I to do now? I must first of all to create some doctors, some realized souls. When I have some more people to work it out, we can work it out. But one thing is there, after getting Realization you must come and learn it and master it. You can — I tell you each and everything of Kundalini you can just master. It’s very easy. It is so easy and it helps you, you know. This is the Power of Love, you must know how it is worked out. We know all the power of hatred only.

 Supposing somebody is very unkind to you. I’ll tell you about My husband’s secretary. She got her Realization and she said, ‛I have got neighbors, some three, four young boys and they are horrible hippies. They are making noise and they troublesome and they called me old hen. What I have to do if they just have fun of me?“

 I said, ‛All right, what will you do?“

 She said, ‛I’m really fed up, I am going to give up the house.“

 I said, ‛You just don’t do like that. You just go and put a bandhan on their house, every day thrice, like this and just think of Me with love.“

 Now she is says that it is quiet like a church yard. ‛They are very quiet and they very kind. They open the lift for me. When I go, they help me.“ (Hindi)

 [Question from the audience in Hindi]

 You are the instrument, you are the medicine, you are the curer, you are the doctor, you are the computer, you are everything. But you should become your Self. You have to become your Self.

 [Talk continues in Hindi]