Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi  

New York, USA
26 September 1981  

It’s nice to see so many people who have got realization and who are in New York.

New York is a very pivotal place in the history of spirituality. It is absolutely the centermost point, of a very important chakra, which is the Vishuddhi chakra.

You are stationed at this point. That’s why Americans talk of very big things, of universal things, of universal consciousness, they talk of solving the problems of the world, they talk of the liberty of the whole universe, and their attention is all very widespread, because you stand at that point.

New York is really placed at a very pivotal point, no doubt, and that’s why you are attacked the most. The attack comes because they know that here is the place one has to attack, the negativity is a cunning.

It is very difficult for you people who are seekers, who are earnestly seeking, who are [a] special category, who are the men of God, to understand the cunning of the negative. There is no way that you can find it out.

Like in India it’s easy. Because Indian scriptures have described, described them at length into all details what is the hell, how the people who are negative act, how they affect you by their mesmerism, how they take advantage of you, how they come in a garb or wearing the – as they say sheep skin by the bhoots.

Though we have read about it in the Bible, and we have heard about it, but still, as Christ’s life was only for three or four years, we should say, it has not been made so clear-cut to us.

Naturally I don’t blame you if you were misled. Actually I came to New York, was nine years back, and Warren must have told you. But I found that people still need more maturity here, because they are busy with their own ideas about things, and they were given more through circuses and elaborate presentations, they would not accept a simple thing, a very, very simple thing, that is Sahaj Yog.

One must know, whatever God does, is the simplest of all, but is also very difficult, because it’s a mystery. Like a flower becomes a fruit: they have never bothered even to find out how it happens, you cannot explain, can you explain?

Can you explain how a seed sprouts? We can’t explain anything on that level of how, with all our scientific things we have done, with all our great enterprises, the big things we talk about, we cannot explain, that is a mystery, that is the mystery.

And this is what we should know, that these people who come to us, create a mystery out of them, and try to impress you.

As I said before, I don’t mind.

Let them earn money, they are people without any background, they are people… some of them have been in literally like beggars some of them, came out of the jail, such things like that.

For them money might be very important, I don’t know why they do it. It’s really, they don’t perhaps know also what they are doing, it’s absolutely dangerous for them and for others. But some of them are real devils. They are quite aware as to what they are doing. Some of them are anti-Christ. Absolutely born on 666 [inaudible words]. They can be proved as anti-Christ, once you become a realized soul.

But this mystery of a living process, is to be understood even logically, not rationally but logically. Logically we can approach at a proper conclusion to understand what is good and what is bad. What are we to expect, what should be the seeking.

As I have told also before, that if you become something else, if you become master of yourself, if you know how to handle this power you have got, then you have achieved what was said to be born again.

Not when you play into the hands of others, like stupid people just moving without any understanding into what direction we are moving like, just herds of sheep driven into sea or into any ditch God only knows.

With our own ideas if we are identified also there could be a danger, so we should keep ourself absolutely open and logically come to the conclusion to find out: what are we seeking? Are we seeking slavery?

America always talked about the liberty, and fraternity, and all those things. What is fraternity? Is collective consciousness.

They are talking of all these big, big things, without realizing that a day will come when they will all have to become.

And because you talk so big they have attacked you also. Because they know that the Unconscious has revealed the great truths to you, great things to you, that’s why they attack you. This attack is so subtle, that it is impossible for anybody to find out where you are being attacked. After coming to New York this time, I found out some new methods of these people that are trying to betray the truth. But truth will be established, truth has to be established. It takes time. It will have to be established. But those who do not accept it will be destroyed. No doubt about it. You have to accept the truth: it’s for you, for your good, for your evolution. And those who do not want to accept, they’ll have to accept the falsehood. And falsehood leads you nowhere but to destruction.

It is not realized it, still, that, in a country like America, we are not going to be destroyed by Russia or by any external force, but by the building internal force of insecurity, and also of ignorance.

We’ll be gradually destroyed to such a state that nothing will be left out of us, and people will just see some bubbles on the shores talking of big things.

It is we who have to save ourselves first, we have to build up ourselves first, we have to become ourselves inside so that we become strong, so that we know we become the masters. It is not the mastery of the world, but the mastery of your Self, which you should have.

A person of Christ’s caliber came on this earth. And was accepted by Americans, legally accepted. He cannot be arrested I think now if He comes to America.

But how will you recognize Him? Is there any method by which you recognize? I can tell you this much, that if He comes here, even if He is not arrested, He won’t stay here for one day more than I can stay.

The reason is, when you are talking to the media here, you think you are talking to the walls! If you go and see in other places, the media is sensitive! Because they have received so many shocks I believe, that now they are so stunned that they don’t want to have anymore!

But take the other way. Supposing you have lost a diamond, and somebody tells you there is a diamond here. Why not see?

I can tell you, if somebody says there is a diamond freely available, people will start coming all the way from Australia and all [secluded/sort of?] places, from Japan, to get that.

But when I say that it is free, I mean, today the sahaja yogis here were telling Me that if you say it is free, Americans won’t understand.

They think whatever is free cannot be alright (laughs), it cannot be alright, something wrong there, something snag. Just imagine.

How can you sell, it-Self? It’s an insult, it’s an insult of God. It’s an insult of Divinity.

Remember Christ took a hunter in His hand to beat all the people who were selling things.

And you believe that you can purchase God, it’s another nonsense. God doesn’t understand money, He never knew what money is. Neither He’ll know what money is. It is you who have created money and all the problems that have come with it.

Now God’s message, His laws, His kingdom is very different. He has got communications, which are very subtle. His ways and methods are so great that unless and until you come into His domain you won’t understand how great He is.

And His creation’s this. He has to save this creation of His, it is He who is more anxious, it is He who wants to do it. It is His own method of bringing forth this special evolution by which you enter into His kingdom, because He is the loving Father, the Father who is the most loving of all, and wants to bestow the highest upon His own beloved children.

He has made you so beautifully, so beautifully He has made you, here you can see that (She shows the chakra chart). Again, artists have tried to make it beautiful but it is not that beautiful as you are.

You are really beautifully styled. I can see that beauty, and you will also start seeing and enjoying the beauty of others once you get your realization.

This is your Kundalini (She points to sacrum bone) – I’m sure Warren must have told you about all the seven chakras you have. I have heard people are doing here called, something called ‘chakra therapy’, and I laughed at that.

And a lady asked Me, ‛They take such a lot of money, Mother, for this chakra therapy“.

Now just ask the one who does that, that how much money did you pay to create these chakras within you? How much money did you pay to become a human being? What did we do to get this beautiful body of ours? How much did we pay to be just breathing? Imagine, for your breathing if you have to pay money, dollars, first of all you can’t get more than two hundred exchange here, and how will you exist with that two hundred if you have to pay a dollar every breathing?

This is a thing we forget, that we are living human beings, and that living process has been always a mystery for human beings, and will remain a mystery till you get realization. So far we have done nothing living, nothing living.

All this is dead, can you find anything that is living here, is done by you?

For example, the growth of these beautiful things, can you achieve it? Nothing. At the most, if there is mud, you can create a pot.

Look around: can you do anything living? And the One who does billions and billions of such things every moment, cannot be forgotten.

You may not face it, but that’s a fact, He exists. There is a power that exists which brings forth all these things.

Now within us is a power, is the Kundalini.

And this Kundalini is a living power.

This is a power which is residual, we call that, because it has manifested the whole, the whole universe and everything, and still it has not manifested itself because it is the residual power of your desire to be one with the Divine.

Unless and until that has happened, unless and until you are baptized – in the real sense, the way John the Baptist did, not just somebody coming: ‛Alright, I baptize you“. It’s all artificial, it’s all a drama.

I’m Myself born a Christian, I used to laugh aloud as a child, I used to laugh aloud: ‛What’s this drama going on? No Kundalini rising, nothing, and they are baptizing!“. Baptism, John the Baptist could do, because he was a realized soul. Those who are not realized cannot give realization, they have no authority.

Alright, even say, in ignorance you believe that you can do it. But now, when it has come to reality, must you not accept it? Must you not get it? Why this obstinacy not to get it, I can’t understand.

And this is what is wrong with our rationality, that we can justify everything that we know, like: ‛I believe“.

Now if you believe that Kundalini is here, what can I do about it? It is not, it is not, it is here.

But because you have read a book which was nine hundred pages, naturally you have paid so much effort, you have every reason to believe in that book (She laughs) because you have put it so much of effort that you can’t get over it: ‛Now I’ve done Mother, what am I to do now? I believe in it“.

Like the other day one fellow said – there’s one anti-Christ, and he said that: ‛I’m taking his name for the last ten years, now how can I forget it?“.

If you have lost something, and you are searching it, and truly, even for ten years, and if you know that that is not the way you find it, you will give up. Is common sense, is absolute common sense one should have to understand that within us God must have placed something beautifully to work it out and…

The chakras and all that they have started talking quite alright, some borrowed feathers from somewhere I don’t know how; I don’t know if they know about the chakras also besides see what they are like, how many centers they have got, and how many they control, and they how they work out. I have no idea as to how much they know and how much they have learnt, because you can read any book, some tantrikas or somebody unauthorized might have told them something and here comes the book. In America I think it is easiest to publish any book. Nobody says no to anything that no sense (and that?), so all kinds of (books?) they may have (wrote?)

And people are very fond of reading, I was coming by plane and one gentleman finished three books, sitting next to Me.

I was amazed at his speed, the way he was reading. This kind of reading gives us a blurred idea, a confusion, about God.

One has to know that if you become the reality, you should be able to reason the reality, you should be able to discriminate, you should be able to see reality.

For example somebody says: ‛Oh, I am a person who is born again,“ or say ‛I am a realized soul“. Alright, if you are a realized soul, can you tell Me what is the problem with this gentleman, can you tell me what are the centers catching in this gentleman, or can you tell Me what are your problems? At least minimum that much you should know.

They said: ‛No, no, that we don’t know, but we are born [again]“. This is self-certification, I mean, if you give a certificate to yourself – I am the President, President of America – you don’t become.

Like some people say: ‛I’m Omkara“

By saying ‘I’m Omkara’, do you become?

You have to really become.

Actually become.

It has to happen within us, that’s why becoming is the crackdown point.

We should ask ourselves: what did we become? Are we master of ourselves?

Now one may say that, ‘What is the authority of Mataji?’. I have heard a thing like that (laughs). It’s correct! I don’t say you should not challenge the authority. But whose authority will you accept? Best authority is yourself.

If I say My authority is Christ, if I say My authority is Rama, is Shri Krishna, and all the ancient scriptures and all the scriptures, and all the great poets who have sung the song of the truth are My authority, you won’t be able to relate.

But the best thing is you yourself should be the authority to judge Me. You yourself should know and see for yourself.

It’s like you bring ten people in the room who are blind, there are no lights, and there you say that the color of these flowers it is red. Then you will say: ‛What is the authority of yours that these flowers are red?“. Now, because I can see! ‛But we cannot see, so how are we to believe?“ So best thing is that I open your eyes, and put on the lights, and you see for yourself.

You can also relatively see. For example a person who first time has never seen a red color, or a blue or a black, then how are you to tell him? You have to take something as an absolute, you can say: ‛Alright, if this is red then that is red, that is called as red“. In the same way we can relatively also judge this.

The other day I told you an example, you take two people who are suffering from cancer, two people who are suffering from say lunacy, and two people who are suffering from fake gurus (laughter, laughs), and two people who are realized souls. Or – and take two people who are not realized. Let’s take like that, a group.

Now, the person who is sitting before us – you can see yourself, not because of Myself – the one who is from lunatic asylum or who has got problems, mental problems, will be shaking, like that. Some will shake little, some will really rackle with it, absolutely rackle.

Then, if you want to see the person who has got cancer, he’ll be emitting heat so much, so much, that the whole room will be filled with hot air.

Now, the third person, who is realized, will feel cool breeze. Tremendous cool breeze, peace and bliss. And the one who is not realized may little bit feel the cool breeze, may feel hot, you see, the mixture of everything, so he’ll feel all the mixtures.

Now you ask the lunatic ‛From where do you come?“, they’ll say: ‛We are certified mad coming from lunatic asylum“. You ask the patient, he’ll say that ‛I’m from such and such place“.

But people do not want to see this fact. Is very simple to verify.

Now moreover, the credibility of a person who is taking money from you, taking everything from you, is putting you on the street, who is making other people mad, has to be challenged. Instead of that they will challenge My credibility, but not of those people – the reason is you are no more there, you are hypnotized, you will not.

But here you are free, and you should challenge. I appreciate it because of freedom, is an expression, you are free to challenge. But that doesn’t mean freedom is a license to again drift into nonsense.

You keep your mind open, receive your realization. I do not know in what words to say that you are the ones who have been seeking truth for ages now. In the mountains, in the hills, in the dales, in the Himalayas, and all over you have been seeking for thousands and thousands of years.

You are seekers, you are a special category of people, and you must seek it, you must find it, instead of it you seek your hell.

What can a person like Me feel about it? Is such a tragic thing, that the one who is really seeking the reality is lost.

I wish you could understand My concern and My anguish, that: look at these people, they have been seeking, seeking God, they are such nice people, such good people – are being harmed, have been tortured, are now on their way to hell.

It’s a very, very sad situation, and that I am trying My level best to convince you that you seek the truth. You ask for the truth. And you get it, establish it, and save others who are being ruined. Because they will be seeking in any case whatever you may try, till the end they will be seeking, till they are drowned completely. They are seekers.

Today we were coming and one of the sahaja yogini was sitting at the back in the airplane. And there was a fellow sitting next to her who was reading some book on meditation. And she, she asked him, ‘Are you a seeker?’. He said: ‘Yes, I am’. And he got his realization in the airplane. She herself has come to Me I think, about few months back. And she gave him realization and he got his realization.

You could see from his eyes, absolutely sparkling eyes he had. You could see he could feel the vibrations and the cool breeze.

And then you learn further steps how to organize it, how to maneuver it, how to manage it.

So you have to be connected with the mains. You have to become divine. Not that you are not, you are; but you are not aware of it. It is not in your conscious awareness, it is not in your central nervous system.

Whatever is in our central nervous system is our achievement in our evolution.

And you have to attain a little more step and you become that. Like a triggering into the space has to take place. This has to happen, and this will happen, that thousands of you are to be saved. In some countries it has worked wonders, especially in a country like Australia, imagine. You had banished them, sent them away as criminals or whatever they [were] – they had children, their grandchildren, and their great-grandchildren are great sahaja yogis. It’s spreading like fire, the media is so sensitive, so sensible. While here I find there is no esmovement [?] in a country where I accepted, and expected that it could be a tremendous thing. Let’s see, let’s see, still I leave it to you people to find out ways and methods of cracking the brains here.

Of course England was very difficult too, for four years I was struggling with seven people, no doubt. But English, once they are cracked, they are very wise.

And somehow or other these seven people proved it so well, and they found the change because they were drug addicts, they had lots of troubles, and they were about to collapse, some of them were absolutely in a coma when they came to Me, so the change, the tremendous change in them convinced other people.

And today we have very good thousand sahaja yogis at least, very good thousand sahaja yogis who are experts, who are masters in Kundalini Yoga in England.

Now, as they have told you about all these centers and all these things, today I would like to give a little introduction about it, but later on I will tell you how the key developments in the human awareness started and how later on the whole thing was revealed.

And today is the time when one can talk about it so openly.

I think you have given them the names and everything of the chakras and everything.

But even knowing all about it, is of no help. You must get your realization, only knowing about them in a bookish way is of no use.

You must get your realization, that is very important.

In India very few people really bother about these things, because they know Kundalini awakening is the only way, like sprouting of a seed.

They know that Mother is the one who is going to do it, second point, because Adi Shankaracharya (has seen?) and this and that. Third point they know that once you get your realization you become the Brahmin or the one who knows the Brahma.

So in a village I have no problem. Thousands of people, if they come to know that Mother is coming, there could be six thousand people in a village. All will gather from all over and they will get their realization so quick, I mean, so fast, just like an American fast jet. Real fast they do it.

In such an American way, that you can’t imagine that it’s like a jet. And all of them getting, and such a wave of beautiful Chatanya Lahari, these vibrations, cool breeze blowing, just like the waves of the sea or an ocean, it’s beautiful to see that many.

I mean, coming to America some Indians were criticizing: ‛Why should You go to America? Why not do it here? In one day You give realization to six thousand people. There one day You might get one and he’ll also slip out“. And they were criticizing My coming to America. That not in a bad way, but in a good way, that ‛It’s better that You spend Your time in India“.

But here are the real seekers. They get it in India because they are too simple; they are so innocent. They have no problems.

Here are the real seekers who are like, we can say, the people in a war front, who do espionage, or something like that, a very serious type of work, get complicated, get involved, caught up by the enemies, and tortured by the enemies, which are so dearer. Those are the heroes, and they must be saved.

That’s how I am here. And I know that once Americans take it up we can save the whole world. It’s very simple to understand.

But the way so far you have been taking up to people is so amazingly foolish that people think that you would never take to Me, because I am too sane, I am too sensible, and they still are very diffident about My work in New York especially.

But to see you all here today, I am overjoyed. I have great faith in you, you have no idea how much faith I have.

You are born in that special chakra, which is the chakra of Shri Krishna. Is the chakra of the Primordial Being, is the chakra from where the collectivity is (first?).

But we have tried everything to ruin it.

First of all it is ruined by smoking. Smoke, Christ may tolerate a little bit at that point (Agnya), but not Shri Krishna, He can’t tolerate smoke. He just can’t bear it. And we have been smoking; thank God I have heard that smoking is going down, that spoils this center.

Then, on the right side, when we talk big, egoistical, when we try to push down people, specially when we try to dominate, say within husband and wife, which we see all the time if there’s a quarrel going on, your chakra will be ruined completely on the right side.

Left side is another problem that comes from feeling guilty. And which is also very common. So these three centers (left, center, right Vishuddhi) that are the most important thing and the most powerful in you people here, [see] how this is attacked.

Moreover the mantras and all that which are not awakened by a realized soul, by a holy person, can also ruin your left… (touches left Vishuddhi). Is very common with the people who have done mantras, and chakra, and all of those things without any authority.

Because the whole thing comes up here (touches throat), just, and when you take the responsibility of such things on your back, say you take on your shoulders the responsibility of wrong type of people, you can imagine, what would be the shape and condition of that wonderful center (Vishuddhi) which was created in a human being when he raised his head from animal stage to look forward.

Is a special thing that happened to us when we raised our head like that, that within us these two centers, these two things like, ego and superego, started developing.

We had superego alright, but the ego started developing when we just raised our head from animal stage to this stage.

But we do not know that if you raise your head too much backwards like this also, it can be spoilt. That means the ego goes too much … then your head goes down like that. Such people never put down their heads you see.

If you see somebody walking like this, find out: he must be something big somewhere, or aware that he is a very big man.

So the center that is the Vishuddhi chakra is this America. And you are the people who are the cells of that chakra which can be awakened. You are the cells and you are to be awakened.

Once you are awakened you can cure this center and the whole universe will be benefited by that. That’s why I request you to understand your position in the whole cosmos, of the universe, and the important and the pivotal part… position that you have, and the wider role that you have to play, so that you pay attention to yourself, your development, your growth, and you achieve your full maturity in Sahaja Yoga.

May God bless you all.

I would like to have some questions today, and then after that we can have the realization. Can you open the window?

(Warren says something to Shri Mataji) Yes. Tomorrow, as he is saying that many of them have had no idea about the chakras and all that, because they have come for the first time today, but tomorrow I am going to tell you all about chakras and all that.

Everything I’ll go gradually one by one. Now I’ll be here for five lectures, and I will see that in every lecture I’ll try to do step-by-step, across the thing. And I will explain you. (Warren tells people about leaflets: ‛If you don’t have one of these, please take one on the way out“).

Shri Mataji: And also put them somewhere for advertising. And moreover there is a book, you can read that, but do not try to remember everything by heart. It will be all your own, the whole knowledge will be your own, it won’t be difficult. So it’s not to be studied, but it’s to be felt. I will definitely tell you all about chakras, and I’ll make you masters. I’m going to make you gurus, every-one of them. Real gurus.

There’s one fellow in India, who’s got his realization, and he’s given realization to, as far as I know, ten thousand – but some people, twenty thousand – they say they are twenty thousand people he has given realization. So it’s possible.

Yes, please?

Seeker says: Mother, I do not mean to be funny, but I felt a cool breeze for quite some time.

Shri Mataji: You are not funny! You are very good, you have got it!

Seeker: But I cannot tell that whether it was the wind! (Laughter)

Shri Mataji: It happens with everyone, because we’ve opened it just now (the window, ndt), alright? There is no wind here, you can see that nothing is moving, you see? Otherwise these things will be moving, you see? Yes, it’s alright, you got it very well, very well.

That is a thing I knew you are going to get it. Alright? So nothing to be funny, is the absolute truth. There was a scientist we had, he was from Orissa. And he got his realization. Then he looked at all the windows, and I was just smiling.

Then he looked at his… he turned like this, and then he had more from Me, he couldn’t believe it. Then he went home, he shut himself in a cellar, there he put, what you call, a candle. And then [he] put his hands to the candle and the candle started giving him cool breeze!

He couldn’t believe it, he thought there’s something gone wrong with him. And now today he is a very great sahaja yogi. Alright? So the first step has started, that proves one thing beyond doubt, that you are a great seeker. Alright? My congratulations.

Seeker says that he has feelings for his family and friends, but he has been seeking for a love relationship with a woman without any success, which is causing him a lot of pain, and he does not know what to do.

Shri Mataji: See, I’ll tell you what happens. You have got a center here is of the Nabhi, alright? Now out of this, is the left Nabhi here. If it is in a problem, left Nabhi is the center of Gruha Lakshmi. Is the center of the Goddess in the household, or your wife, see. Of course these days you don’t find Goddesses as wives, but still! (Laughter), So, if that goes out, you see, then lots of problems also can come up, but one of them is that you get such a situation.

But all such situations can be overcome, all kinds of situations: people who have had perverted relationships also get sorted out, those who have had, what you call, the problems of divorce and sort of a relationship with a woman and they are frightened of women, or the women who are dominating or they don’t know how to stop their domination – they don’t want to dominate but they somehow dominate – all these things will be sorted out. No problem. Next year you will be married very nicely. Alright? We had sixteen marriages (laughter, Shri Mataji laughs) recently in England.

One of them was Warren, who was married. And he is a divorcee, and he had given up hopes of marriage. We had sixteen marriages the day of Krishna’s birthday. So don’t you worry.

But you have to follow certain understanding of maintaining yourself in a position, see, and I’ll tell you all about it, how to do it.

And you will have very good marriages, lasting marriages, not only that; but you’ll have realized souls as your children. There are many who want to be born. And all the sahaja yogis who are married now have got realized souls as children. Because they want to be born, they want parents who understand them, who can bear them, who can look after them, and love them. So you will have everything fine, don’t you worry. And a very nice wife too. Alright? Yes?

Seeker says something about subconscious impurities.

Shri Mataji: I am happy that you have reached the right conclusion. Don’t you worry, I know how to look after them. That’s all I’ll say. And I will teach you how to do it for others also.

You will become Saint Michael in this respect. Alright? And we’ll have to drive them out, all the subconscious impurities. I think we have got our book here, of the Advent.

(Warren: ‛It’s coming up Monday“)

Shri Mataji: Alright. In that it is, see, Gregoire, the one who has written the book, has called them as UPI, I don’t know what it means (laughs) but he calls them as UPI, and there are so many methods by which we can drive them out. Eh? What is it?

[Warren: Units of Psychic Interference]

Shri Mataji: Ah ok! (Shri Mataji laughs) That’s (…) all the invention. Don’t worry. You just don’t worry. Not only yours, but others, you know. When you will go on the road, if they know that you are passing that way, they’ll all disappear. You become so powerful. (Warren says something about the sins of the past)

Now will you forget them? Forget it, forget your past. Forget it, that is subconscious, just forget it.

Do you know that all the sins and blasphemy is to be forgiven, and it’s been already promised? Because you are saints! So don’t count them at all, forget it.

You see, when you wash the clothes, say in a washing machine, will you count all the stains? It’s like that. Kundalini washes you up and cleanses you completely. It’s your own Kundalini, it is pure, holy, your own Mother. She’ll wash it up, don’t you worry. Alright?

Seeker: Yes.

Shri Mataji: It’s too much to believe, is it? (Laughs, laughter) it is so. Because you don’t know what you are, you are fantastic.

(To a lady:) What worries you? What is worrying you?

Female seeker says something.

Warren repeats: ‛She thinks she has taken somebody into her house who is not good, and she thinks she is becoming not good as a result of that“.

Shri Mataji: See, there are solutions for that kind of thing. If he is really a sinister fellow, he’ll run away. Alright. Or in case he is capable of improvement, he’ll improve. So you become more powerful than them. You see? Is what is more powerful is the point. If the light is more powerful, the darkness has to run away. Alright? So because you still do not know your powers, and to maneuver it, that’s why you are worrying. But once you know it’s very simple. Once you are realized I will tell you how to use it, and you’ll be amazed.

Like yesterday I was coming, and suddenly I had to go, and there was no seat available in the plane, and so my husband told Me, ‛I’m sorry, there’s not seat available for you“, and suddenly he said: ‛Oh, it’s a miraculous thing, they have said there’s some seat“. I said: ‛Alright, book Me there“.

And two others were coming with me. – See, this is absolutely a material life, absolutely a material level, isn’t it? – And two others were coming, there was no seat at any cost. And two people who had booked for one month before, ahead, dropped out and these two were with Me in the airport [probably meaning airplane – ed.].

So even (?) at a very, very material level they help you. And spiritual level I need not tell you. Even at the very baser material level they help you, because this Lakshmi tattwa is here (points at Nabhi on chakra chart) which helps you for the well-being.

Krishna has said: Yogakshema Vahamyam, I’ll look after your Yoga first, Yoga means the union, first you must get your union, and then the well-being, Kshema, is well-being. In America we have got the Kshema first, the well-being, the Yoga is missing still. (She smiles, laughter)

Seeker: I wanted to ask a question to Mother.

Shri Mataji: Yes, please.

Seeker: First I would like to say that You were an inspiration…

Shri Mataji: What is it?

Warren: You are an inspiration to him, Mother.

Shri Mataji: Ah?

Warren: You are an inspiration to him.

Shri Mataji: Oh, I see. May God bless you.

Seeker: I am sure all of us have hundreds of questions that would keep You here the whole night, but I would like to say that I would like to become a realized being and give the answers from within. So my question is: after the five lectures, and You leave us, where do we go from there?

Shri Mataji: I know, everybody feels sad (laughter). Because you are like small children, you know. But you grow so fast. That you are amazed, you see. You grow. You grow very fast. You’ll all grow. I’m not going to leave you. I’m going to come back again and again, and you are going all to come to India, and we are all going to have a very nice time (laughter). We all belong to each other: how can we leave you? Now. Is it alright, or any other question?

Even if you have any personal questions or anything you can write to Me, alright? If you don’t want to discuss it here. And tomorrow morning if they can come to the hotel – (Warren says they will have a workshop at the hotel at eleven o’clock) Here? (Warren: No, at the hotel) The hotel, you can come, I can work it out for you if you have any personal problems or anything, we’ll work it out, alright? I’m here for a complete 24-hours in the hotel.

[The lady says that the day before it had been said that you can ask a question and you get the answer.]

Shri Mataji: Yes.

Lady: And how do you read that, how do you know…

Shri Mataji. See, what happens, now say for example you are connected to a mains. Alright? Now the mains is an unconsciousness was so far, it has become a consciousness within you. You are like a computer I would say, to make things easy. It’s a mystery again. So you put your hands and ask a question: ‛Mother, is there God?“. Just see vibrations. Right? ‛Mother, is there God?“. And three times if you ask, you get tremendous [vibrations], already must have started. You see, so, that’s how you will know. But if you ask about somebody who is not a real guru, who is not a real person, then you might even get burning. Sometimes you might even get blisters. You may lose your vibrations. The more you grow the more you become sensitive, and you start understanding where you are.

Lady: Can you also ask practical questions about your life?

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, you will. In the beginning everybody asks: should I buy this? Or that? (Laughter, Shri Mataji laughs). Then the questions start becoming subtler and subtler, because your priorities change, you know? Whatever level you are, you start asking questions. Then no questions, at a stage which we call… first you get thoughtless awareness, as your… first you get thoughtless awareness.

In Sanskrit, it is called as ‛nirvichar samadhi“. Sama-dhi: ‛Dhi“ means your consciousness, and sama-dhi is the one which is enlightened. So, the thoughtless enlightened awareness first.

Then the second state is – between these (is a little these two things??) which you have to establish – is called as Nirvikalpa samadhi, meaning doubtless awareness.

It is a state; it is not: ‛I have no doubts about Mother, I have no doubts about Sahaja Yoga“, is not that. And that state is achieved, and at both the states when you are say thoughtlessly aware state, you can give awakening, you can give realization, you can cure cancer, you can cure all kinds of diseases, so many things you can do with the first shot. But much do not indulge in that too much. You can give realization at the most, and then you should jump onto the second stage where you become Nirvikalpa. Means where you are doubtlessly aware. Doubtlessly enlightened awareness. Then you become that.

At that stage you don’t start catching from others, such sort of thing; you see, you may feel ‛This is the finger catching there“, but you don’t get involved with it. It’s a state, it’s a state, in which you mature, which happens to you. Many people, and will happen to all of you, there’s no problem about it. But some people do it faster, some take time, but it happens to all of you.

It’s a happening again, maturity. Alright?

Female seeker asks if a person who has never been interested and has never come, if this person may be influenced to do this thing.

Shri Mataji: Who is not interested?

Female seeker: Yes.

Shri Mataji: Forget it. Let them get lost, that’s what they are, they are not interested in their own Spirit, now what am I to do, should I break My head? You have to ask for it. You see, God has given you freedom, this is the problem. You have the freedom, if you want to go to hell you can go directly. Take two running jumps and go. But if you want to have realization, you can get it. Alright? But if you don’t want it, don’t force them, please don’t, you cannot force it. You cannot force it.

They – I can cook food for you, all right? I can put it in your mouth. But the enjoyment of eating it, has to come within yourself; you don’t want to enjoy anything, what are we to do? You can’t force it.

In the beginning only the seekers are important. They need not be your brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, they need not be anything. Seekers are important, pay attention to seekers. They are to be saved, alright? Once the seekers come up, then these second class citizens will start coming up, you see?

Let us see to the first class citizens in the Kingdom of God, then we’ll bother about the second and the third and the fourth. But don’t waste your energy on somebody who is not convinced. You cannot convince him by your brain, you cannot. You see, they are very obstinate people. I’ve told many-a-times, but still you see we are involved with the other people and we try to convince, and – oday only I received a letter saying, ‛Please, give Realization to mother, she’s very adamant. Give Realization to my father, he doesn’t want to listen to me, give Realization to my sister, she doesn’t believe in it“, all sorts of things, you see. I said: ‛All right, all right (Mother smiles)“. So, don’t be concerned, have no sympathies of this kind.

Sympathy: ‛Sym“ means to share, and ‛pathy“ is the ‛pathos“. So don’t try to share the pathos, all right? Have no such sympathies. Only seekers look after the seekers. And: ‛Sorry, you are not a seeker“. I also tell them you go away (She makes namaste).

You see, there are people who will come and say, ‛Mother, I once have gone to the races and I lost“. I say, ‛Now you get lost, you go away“. You see, you can’t give anything to such people, who are on that gross level.

Let them be. But first of all let us enlighten those who are capable of enlightenment.

They are more important. And not those who are just with very great difficulty are pushed into it and go back as if pushed by a piston, you see, better not have them. All right? So, don’t you worry on such people. Of course you feel concerned, no doubt, but forget it, that’s not- the seekers are too many and we have to look after them.

Yes, My child?

[The lady asks if people who are really seeking can attain it.]

Shri Mataji: No, if they want to have it, you can do it, you see? Even people who are declared as greatest (…) you see, got Realization. Imagine, the other day – imagine – archbishop of black magic got Realization. Can you believe it? Archbishop of black magic. He got Realization. Of course I told people, ‛Now don’t try all these tricks with such people because see, they will try to tempt even you“. So, we are treating him separately. But the person who is supposed to be the archbishop of black magic. I mean, witchcraft. He got Realization. So anybody can get it.

But if they do not ask it, you cannot force them, you cannot argue it out, you cannot tell them: ‘You must get your realization’, nothing [of the kind]. If they think they are very wise let them be alone, don’t waste your energy. Instead you can give to ten people who are wanting it. All right?

So just find out who is a seeker, also from vibrations you can find out. Those who are seekers will get their awakening very fast, you see.

Warren: She says this man is a smoker…

Shri Mataji: Who is a smoker?

Warren: This man she is speaking of.

Shri Mataji: But he would like to have a Realization? Oh, smoking is nothing, even if he is a chimney (laughter) he can get that. If he is a seeker, he has to be seeker, the first primary consideration is that he should be a seeker. It’s nothing, I mean, smoking, everybody smokes, we find [nothing] but this smoke in this world, what to do. But doesn’t matter, I mean, it’s not such a sin. Nothing is a sin in the presence of the Ocean of love. Is it? What is a sin? Nothing. So it’s not so important. Smoking at least.

Seeker: Fixation, is that a sin?

Warren: He is saying, is fixation a sin?

Shri Mataji: It’s not a sin, according to Me nothing is sin now. Forget it. I mean, fixation, I would say, will only drop out through Kundalini awakening, and awareness, and alertness. All fixations can be dropped out, misidentifications can be dropped out, because you become a different person. Like, say, a caterpillar becomes a butterfly, alright? Now, there must be the part of that cocoon sticking on to the butterfly, must be. So you don’t like it, you want to throw it away, just falls off, because it’s all broken out.

Like an egg-shell becoming, egg becoming a, say a bird. And the shell is still sticking on somewhere, so the bird doesn’t like it, he throws around. It’s like that. It’s transformation and transmutation. Both things take place. First the transformation which is very easier, you got it just now; but the transmutation you have to work it out a little bit, and they drop out.

Little bit power helps you. And you want to do it, you don’t want to have them.

Because supposing I have a fixation with, say, a spirit. We’ll catch on this (left Agnya finger), we’ll catch on this (left Swadishthana finger), we’ll get a headache (touches back Agnya). Normally you won’t get a headache till you become mad, you see? But after realization you start getting.

Like a lady who had liver trouble. She came to Me, she said: ‛Mother, my head has gone absolutely heavy now, what am I to do?“.

I said: ‛You have a liver, you get it cured. If you don’t get your liver cured, you’ll have this trouble“. So she tried her best to get it, and you can get it cured just like that (Shri Mataji snaps Her fingers) with Sahaja Yoga. It’s very simple. And she got alright. So fixations also drop out. It’s all ignorance: we will not call it sin but it’s ignorance.

[The lady says something to the effect that she was warned by someone that Kundalini caused people problems and one can end up in hospital.]

Shri Mataji: Very true, very true, you see. Now what she says is true and I know that. Because it’s not Kundalini that takes place. See, Kundalini is your holy Mother. And not only holy Mother, but she’s the only Mother you have and you are the only child She has. And she’s not going to give you this trouble, but these people who do not know the job at all, who are not authorized, they are extremely unholy people, they are people who should be in hell, and are trying to do these things, and they make you suffer.

For example, when you try to excite the Kundalini by any method like that, actually you either move to the left or to the right. They push you to the left or to the right. And if you move to the left you can become mad, and if you push to the right you become stupid. So accept one or the other (laughs, laughter). You can’t take them up there, you see? (She points to Sahasrara on the chakra chart). It cannot be reached. Even they say Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesha cannot reach Ganesha, who informs the Kundalini to rise. So, you can imagine. These horrible people, just to make money, are telling you stories and they put you in the lunatic asylum. Not only, I have seen people coming, who went for flying. They paid three thousand pounds to fly. I mean, they must have some brains to understand: why are you flying?

Are you going to become birds now? Make your guru fly! I said, why not put them, put him from this Leaning Tower of Pisa, and see where does he fly, upward or downward? (Laughter)

You see, when he’ll go down, then you will see that this is the thing he’s doing, and then you are paying three thousand pounds. On top of that what you get is an epilepsy. They are all suffering from epilepsy, you know? It’s true, it happens, I know. But this is your Mother. She just gives you your realization, that’s all. I have never seen one person getting mad, on the contrary mad get well with it. How can it be? You are going to become a Spirit, on your way to that how can you become mad? I mean, supposing you are going to Heaven, and on the way you meet there at station some lunatic asylums? How can you become mad? We should use our brains to see these are horrid people, I agree with you. They are using all kinds of dirty methods, I know.

Specially sex. How can you use sex for your Kundalini? Because that’s your Mother. How can you do it? All absurd ideas, I don’t understand. If sex is so important all animals should be realized souls by now (laughter).

Not that you have to abhor sex, you have to lead a sane married life, and lead a very decent life and all that, that’s the key to it; but not this kind of a thing that you can raise Kundalini through sex, it’s all filthy, all bathroom culture I think, the way these people talk about. Absurd! So filthy you can’t imagine. It’s filth. I mean, there should be something, our sex is private, isn’t it? We call it as private. But how do we handle them – with these horrible gurus and one of them has come down and settled here in your country. His Vishuddhi’s gone off now. I’m happy about it.

Warren [repeats a question by a seeker]: He feels a very nice presence. He’s asking You if there is any initiation that You do.

Shri Mataji: I’ve already done it, I think (laughter). I really don’t do anything to be very frank. If you ask the sun: ‛Do you take the color of the leaves?“. He’ll say: ‛No“. Because that is his nature. This is just the case. It just flows. I really don’t do anything. Am I doing anything? I’m just talking, that’s all. But it works, it works, it works by itself. Because you are a deserving case. That’s why it is acting. I don’t have to do anything. Alright? Now. You said it was the last question now.

Warren: He asked twenty the other time, so…

Seeker: Yesterday I told the nice Australian doctor that I was a traditional minister in a traditional…

Shri Mataji: Tradition?

Warren: He is a traditional minister. He’s a Baptist minister.

Shri Mataji: Ah! Then you should really become a Baptist, I’ll make you a real Baptist.

The seeker asks how he can relate Self-realization to the scriptures.

Shri Mataji: I mean, what am I telling you, everything that is scriptured but in the real sense.

[Seeker says something that for him it will be more difficult than for others…]

Shri Mataji: You see, they will see your powers. Alright? It’s better to tell them and save them than to allow them to be drowned. Under the name of Christ and God, one cannot do like that. We cannot do like that anymore, it’s all done, I’m so happy you could come here and you could achieve it, you’ll save so many of them. You face the truth, it is so.

But I will tell you some questions when you’ll ask, then you be sure you are doing that.

Alright now, any more questions? Or are you all enjoying the cool breeze?

Lady: [Inaudible]

Shri Mataji to Warren: Why did you open?

Warren to the lady: What do you say, sorry, I didn’t talk about it.

Lady: Yes, you did, when you were talking about the Christian gnostics.

Warren: Oh, I mentioned… Mother, I said that the wind of the Holy Spirit is often referred to by the gnostics as the Holy Breath. That’s all I mentioned.

Shri Mataji: Ruh, yes, Ruh, means Ruh.

Warren: Ruh. And I gave its different names in different scriptures, that’s all.

Shri Mataji: But what happened to the disciples of Christ, you see, is a problem I don’t want to raise controversy, all right? What happened to them is a little controversial subject which I will tell you later on. All right? Just now you get your Realization, mature. Because, you see, today you are learning Christianity. All right? So you have problems of Christianity. Those who are studying, say, Hindu religion, they have problems from Hindu religion. Because it is misinterpreted also many-a-times, isn’t it? The one who has misinterpreted does not know that he’s misinterpreted. And only through your vibratory awareness you should find out the absolute truth. Like when I told people that Christ’s Mother was the Holy Spirit, they would not accept it. In India they said: ‛What did She do? She just used to cry and weep, but the Holy Spirit is supposed to give Realization to people, She didn’t give Realization to anyone“. But She was. So how do you find out? You put your hands towards Me and ask the question: ‛Mother, was She the Holy Spirit?“.

Then why didn’t Christ say that She was the Holy Spirit? The question comes in. It’s with Him, absolutely one can understand that She was the Mother of Christ. And Christ has got eleven destructive powers, with which He’s going to come back. Eleven destructive powers He’s got. About which Bible says nothing, because you see, Christ could not talk to His disciples who were just fishermen. And they never believed Him. Till they saw His resurrection they never believed Him.

So, His eleven powers that He had, He could have destroyed the whole world at that time of His crucifixion, but crucifixion had to be done with a special purpose, which I’ll tell you later on, why He was crucified.

And He didn’t want to say that, because if anybody would have tortured Her, He would have used all His eleven powers and the whole game would have been over. Alright? So it is a very subtle subject, which you should understand but first you must become subtler. Then you will understand each and everything very nicely on the Kundalini. For example, I say the Christ is placed here, on this point. That He is to be awakened here. When He is awakened, then only the ego and superego both are sucked in.

That’s how your sins and your sufferings He takes over.

Now, if I say so, why should you believe in it? Isn’t it? But what can happen that when we raise the Kundalini, yourself when you will be a realized soul you’ll see, the Kundalini may stop here. Then you have to take Christ’s name. You have to awaken Him. If you are a Realized soul only, otherwise you cannot. Then you’ll find the Kundalini will rise. Or you have to say Lord’s Prayer, then only the Kundalini will rise. But only a realized soul can do it. Anybody says Lord’s Prayer is a waste. Is a waste. Is not connected. Alright? So it’s a very subtle subject, you be honest about itself, you become that, and then you’ll start seeing everything clearly.

As I said that this room is dark, you can’t see anything, so best thing is to open your eyes properly, get the lights on and see for yourself. All right? Because if I say something, it may create the situation of a doubting Thomas, which I don’t want to have. First mature yourself, alright? You must mature all of you. Is a good question you asked, but that’s little further. One need not hang on to anything. Just see for yourself what it is, you must see for yourself. Keep yourself open.

Is true, what he said is true, it’s called as Ruh. Is a, is the cool wind of the Holy Spirit and I don’t know if his book is published or not, of Adi Shankaracharya, he’s written a big book about it, Chaitanya Lahari and all that, he’s written it. But I, most of their books are not translated, what to do? I mean, it’s such a big book on this cool breeze. Of course this knowledge of how to use it, and how, what fingers are there, is not yet there, because that was not the time to be given perhaps. But all the teachings I’ll be giving you, and you can verify. You can verify everything. So you must verify. But don’t waste too much time in these things, first of all you mature. And gradually you will start seeing yourself. First thing should be that you mature. That is first thing and important.

(Shri Mataji points to a yogini) See, she got Realization two days back, I mean, how many days?

Four, five days back. And she can feel everybody’s chakras, she can raise the Kundalini, she can do it. So just do that, first start doing it, all right? First become that.

Then you will start understanding this is not important. Is not important. What is important is to understand Christ where He is, how we can awaken Him, all these things are more important.

Warren: We should have it?

hri Mataji: All right. Agnya is there.

Now, those who think, please, this center of Christ itself is catching. Put your hands towards Me and say that: ‛Mother, I forgive everyone“.

(People repeat). Again (People repeat). Again (People repeat). Still there. Should we say Lord’s Prayer. (People recite Lord’s Prayer three times).

Shri Mataji: Now see is it coming? Put your hands straight. Here, this side. You are alright? Are you feeling? It’s there? Keep yourself steady. No body movement is needed.

Just keep your[self] steady, the Kundalini is inside, She rises by herself, don’t do any body movements because that will spoil it. Just be steady, just keep your eyes shut, (because) if you don’t shut your eyes also the Kundalini won’t rise above Agnya.

You have to keep your eyes shut, that’s important. Because you have to get it after all, what is it? You have to get it, you are here to get it, that’s all. Please close your eyes. You are here to get it, that’s the main point, to receive it. Now put your right hand on your heart. Right hand on your heart. And say: ‛Mother, I am not guilty“. Thrice, three times say: ‛Mother, I’m not guilty“ (people repeat).

Now ask a question: ‛Mother, am I my own guru?“. (People repeat twice). Again (people repeat). Now ask a question: ‛Mother, am I the Spirit?“. (People repeat twice) Again. (People repeat). Now say: ‛Mother, please give me realization“. (People repeat twice). Again (people repeat).

Ah. (She puts Her hand above Sahasrara)

It’s there. Now put your right hand on top of your head and you see a cool breeze coming out of your fontanel bone area.

On the head, on top of your, on top.

Just on top, see. There will be a cool breeze.

Just move your hand and see that if there’s… little higher you keep your hand, and see if there is a cool breeze coming in. Maybe some people might get little hot [She makes gesture as if taking heat coming from Sahasrara and take it out]; some people will feel it in the hand, some in the head, coming out.

Specially those who smoke do not feel it in the hand in the beginning, doesn’t matter.

Put down your hands please again. Those who did not feel any cool breeze raise your hand.

You have to be honest about it, you have to get it, alright? Out of these who have not felt: have you been to a guru? Those who have not been to any guru and have not felt it. Those who have not been to any guru and have not felt it. Not at all to any guru? You are not reading any books? Alright.

(Female seeker says something)

Shri Mataji: That spiritually stands even worse. Alright, doesn’t matter. Alright, it’s alright.

Now put your hands like this. Now those who haven’t felt it please keep your hands again. And sahaja yogis you can go and look after them. Tracy, you need not. You give realization, it’s alright. Now, you haven’t felt cool breeze? Alright. Good. Yes.

Those who haven’t felt any cool breeze raise your hands. You haven’t. Something. Alright, now put your hands like this, don’t be upset. Everything is going to be alright, eh?

Got it, you’ve got it. Got it. Now see this gentleman, the other one, just see. Are you? Feeling it? Alright. So you are a branded seeker, and you are sorted now. See that gentleman, you should ask the one… yes. Did you feel, My child? Did you? Good, good.

Dan, you also go and help now, see, you just start practicing, all of you, from New York. She’s got it.

Alright, you’ve got it now, don’t doubt it. Don’t think about it, she’s got it, you got it very well, face has changed.

What’s the matter, Steve? Left Nabhi?

Drugs. Alright, put your hand down here, on the left side, left side. Alright. [Pause. Shri Mataji enters into meditation] Ah, alright?

Warren: He has been to a guru in the past.

Shri Mataji: Really?

Warren: In the past.

Shri Mataji: Of course in the future he’s not going to go. He’ll run away (Shri Mataji laughs) These people leave him, those see the book they don’t even touch it. You see? Oh God!

See this lady here, she’s left-sided I think. Just see. Let this gentleman work it out, come along. Now you give realization. Alright, alright, come along, no, it’s for you, no, no, come here, come here.

Now Gavin, let him see the wind coming out of others. Let him see from the head, let him see. This gentleman. Now come along, you help him. This is Mr. Gavin Brown, from London. Alright? Now we have imported them, next time you have to come to London.

Now show him, how the cool breeze is coming, raising the Kundalini, ask him to raise it. Raise it also. Now we are baptizing, really you are a real baptist.

Now ask him to raise it, how to raise it also. You people can learn it also, both of you, come along, you are very strong, come along.

Both of you come along, get up and get your… raise it.

Christine, just teach these two boys, they are very good and strong.

Now forget about your sins, so-called. She’s there, go, she’ll tell them… ah, alright? (She’s talking to a seeker who is feeling the cool breeze on the head of another seeker) One hand towards Me! Now there is no window there, just have a look! Show there’s no window in the head! It’s there!

Take them, let them test everyone. How are you now, are you better now? Today? Are you better? This is the cool breeze. You help him. Forget about the past, and just help him. You are better now but the Ekadasha is there. You are very hot still. Ekadasha Rudra…

How are you? Fine. You also got it? You haven’t got it? Now, come along. Who is there? Hema? If you can come here. Gavin? You just come and look at this. You feel? True! (…) Now. Come along, put your hand. Put one hand…

Alright? This is the cool breeze. Yes, yes, you can feel it, all of you, all of you can. You have to forgive! You have to forgive, you have not forgiven really. Have you? No you haven’t. Say now ‛Mother I forgive“ Again. ‛I must forgive, I have to forgive“. Again. Ah, alright?

Now better? Alright? See now, you’ve taken two, you have not forgiven also! Have you forgiven? No!

[End of video]