Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

Rome, Italy
26 October 1987 

I bow to all the seekers of love and joy.

When we talk of love and joy we have to know that it comes from reality, from the truth. Anything that is false or unreal cannot give you eternal joy. But truth is what it is. You cannot say with your own intelligence, ‛This is truth and this is not truth.“ Everybody when they see the truth has to be the same. The truth cannot be organized, it is what it is. We cannot prophesize or we cannot say, profess that this is truth. We cannot pay money for it. Now as it is, in the process of our evolution that we reveal truth after truth. It is at the epitome of evolution you have to receive the ultimate truth.

In the human awareness we live on a relative plane. There is no way to know what is absolute truth. Within us lies the power to take us to that state of absolute. That is what it is, that you are the Spirit. You are not this body, you are not this mind, you are not this ego, you are not these thoughts. What you are is the Spirit.

As I told you, to know the Spirit we have to go through the living process. As in our evolutionary state we have come to human state without thinking about it, without putting any effort. In the same way we have to know the ultimate, the absolute truth, in the living process, by the living force. Like we put a seed in the Mother Earth and it sprouts spontaneously through the living force of the Mother Earth.

In the same way this last journey takes place from the triangular bone, which we call as sacrum, to the fontanel bone area. There is this dormant energy in the triangular bone called as sacrum. That means the Greeks knew that it is their sacred bone.

This energy in the Christian religion is called as the Holy Ghost. In the Islamic religion it is called as Assis and in every religion it has a name, but in the Indian seers called it as the Primordial Mother. So this energy, the dormant energy which is within you, is the reflection of that Primordial Mother’s energy within you, which gives you your second birth.

When this second birth takes place it is an actualization of an experience. You can feel the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost coming out of your head, like a cool breeze and then you become conscious of the all pervading power of love, which you have never felt before, which is around you.

Human beings always depended on the energy of hatred, not on love. But the whole cosmos is made by this energy of love. And this energy thinks, understands, organizes and loves. It is the most efficient energy that you could think of. It never fails. If you want to know about someone, whether a person is good or bad you cannot say absolutely the truth about the person. But once you become a self-realized soul then you can feel it on your fingertips, all the centers that are within you and all the centers that are in the other person. And if you just learn how to correct your centers and the centers of another person you achieve tremendous results. As this energy rises within you, you get rid of your sicknesses. You get rid of incurable diseases. You get rid of all your bad habits. You become a completely a free person, nothing can tempt you. You immediately become a very wise, discreet personality.

We see the situation of the religion and we get quite frightened. So many people say they follow this religion, that religion in every country. But what we find that by following any religion they can not stop doing wrong things. Whatever religion they can follow they all can be nasty, they can be cruel, they can be arrogant, they can be horrid. So there is only fear, which works in some people, that they’re frightened, otherwise they can do whatever they like. They do not have that inner power which gives them the light to see what is wrong and what is right. And even if they can see it clearly they cannot do it because they haven’t got the power to do it, they have no will power to do it.

So here you see there are three channels shown in this diagram, which are clearly indicative that we have three types of energies working within us. In the medical terminology they are called as autonomous nervous system. But who is the auto? Who is the one who does the job? That is what they cannot explain.

Now these two energies, which are representing the two channels, as we call them the left and the right side. The left side is called as the energy of the moon, which gives us emotional side. And the right energy, which is called as the energy of the sun, gives us the physical and the mental side, the intelligent side. The central one is the one, which is responsible for giving us the ascent.

Now whatever we have achieved in our evolution we can feel it on our hands, on our central nervous system, on our organs. Like if you ask a dog to go through a dirty lane he can do it. But if you ask a human being to go through a dirty lane he cannot. A real saint will not commit any sins but a human being can commit any sins. So the real saint, not the saint which is declared by say, some, temples or church, but a real saint who is of a higher evolution, is the one who lives in a state of complete peace and joy. Now you don’t have to give up anything, is a wrong idea altogether, but if you have gone too much on the left side or on the right side too much then it creates a problem on the centers, the fundamental centers. So the people who live with moderation are the best to get their realization.

But now we have seen that the Divine is so anxious to give realization to human beings that whatever you may be whatever may be your past you get your realization. Because the time has come, it is the blossom time, where many, many flowers have to become fruits. It has to work out. Mohammad Sahib has said that at the time of resurrection it would be (unsure of spelling Kiama) and at that time your hands will speak and give witness against you. This is exactly what happens to you that your hands, the fingertips starts feeling your chakras and tell, ‛This is wrong with you, this is wrong with you.“ And you are not disturbed to hear the witness against you because you are not any more identified with your weaknesses. Like if I have a black spot on my sari and I can’t see, I’m blind. So anybody says, ‛There’s a black spot on your sari,“ I’ll think that they’re trying to befool me. And I may get angry with that person, but if my eyes are opened out and if I can see then I would like to get rid of it. Because I’m no more attached to that. This is what is what we say is the last judgment. This is how we are going to be judged by ourselves only.

In the Vatican we have a beautiful painting done by Michelangelo who was a realized soul. The Cistine Chapel has that beautiful painting of Christ standing and doing the last judgment. That is what it is, that at this point at Agnya chakra is Christ there, that’s the gate through which everybody has to pass.

So when the Kundalini rises she awakens the Christ deity there, deity of Christ in that chakra, and then you can judge yourself. Somebody can come and say, ‛Mother my Agnya chakra is catching.“ That in simple language means, ‛Mother I’m very egoistical.“ But because he’s not attached he says, ‛Agnya chakra is catching.“ In this language he speaks.

But now we have to understand how a great part has been played by the crucifixion of Christ. There is a cross between of optic chiasma within us also and our ego and our conditioning are on both the sides are trying to press it hard, there’s no room to go in. Because Christ was the embodiment of Logos, of the Omkara, the Chaitanya what you call the vibrations. He’s the only one who could pass through. So He established a path for us of resurrection.

But the way they talk about sufferings I can’t understand. He has already suffered for us. He has suffered for our sins.

When He’s awakened here He sucks in on both the sides as you see, the karmas, the conditionings, the ego, just like that He sucks in.

And an area is made here which is a soft bone in your childhood, it becomes again soft and the Kundalini comes out of it.

Is absolutely wrong, against Christ to say that you have to suffer to go to God. Can we suffer more than Him? Or do you mean to say that He has left some sufferings for us to be done? His is the message of joy and of resurrection and not of suffering. Even in India there are many people who say, ‛You have done bad karmas so you must give so much money, you must do this, you must do that. You must put nails into your body or maybe you must get sick and then you become a great saint.“

The one who tells never does that. The one who tells that you must suffer goes on taking all the money, lives in comfort and has all the best things to himself. And the simple, innocent people go on paying money for a thing, for suffering, they pay money and suffer.

And also they want show Christ as a thin bony structure as a skeleton, as if he was the one who was that miserable. Only Michelangelo could see how Christ looked because he was a seer. Anybody with that kind of bony body, can he carry a cross across?

So I am here to give you a message that you have got this energy within you. You are at the epitome of evolution. And hardly it will take split of a second for you to get your realization, to enter into the Kingdom of God. There’s a beautiful instrument within you, which works it out. You are not to blame yourself for little, little things. You are not to feel guilty at all. You have to have all the confidence. It is very important to understand that you are the highest in the evolutionary process. It’s only the human begins who are going to achieve realization, not the mosquitoes or the chickens or the pigs. So we must respect our personality as human beings and don’t believe in all these stories where just it’s all a money making proposition I think.

I am sure by God’s grace today you all will get your realization. Of course it is all being organized within you during the process of your evolution. It is your energy, within yourself is your own Mother who is going to give you your realization. And in your heart resides the Spirit and this Spirit has its seat here on top of your head, and when the Kundalini touches that, you get on your central nervous system the sensation of the all-pervading power.

It’s not only that you can cure yourself but you can cure others. You become a drop in the ocean, like the microcosm becoming a macrocosm. There is no missionary work in it. Supposing this hand is paining and another hand is rubbing it, then no obligation, this hand belongs to the same body. Who is the other? If you are part and parcel of one being then, who is the other?

This is a very big revolution that is coming today, very different from other revolutions we have had. In this revolution the transformation that takes place within you start getting drenched in the bliss of the Divine. You become very peaceful, joyous, serene personalities. You start looking very young, all your worries go away and your wrinkles disappear and you become the light. Then you start emitting light for others. This has to happen, if we have to change the world we have to change human beings. Not by force, not by any organization, no brain washing, only by Kundalini awakening.

So you become the Spirit, and you decide for yourself, you become your own guide, I don’t have to tell you anything. That is the way of love, and that is how you are going to enter into the kingdom of God to have your rightful enjoyment of His bliss. Today I have just given you the introduction, tomorrow I’ll tell you in detail all about it.

Now it is very easy, supposing you want to put on the light I’ll just tell you that you switch it on and there is light. In the same way it happens because it’s all built in and worked out, it’s all ready to happen. But if I tell you all about all the history of electricity and how it was done and what is the organization, you will get headaches and leave, go nowhere. So first thing is to have the light, second thing is to look after it and establish it and third thing would be to grow in its light and become great huge personalities of joy, peace and bliss.

May God bless you all.

It will take about ten minutes at the most for you to get your realization, but I would like you to ask Me some questions for about five minutes only. I’m sorry I was late because I had to go for two television interviews.

Question:How do we learn all these things?

Shri Mataji:I agree, we have no school but we have an ashram here, we have a center where they meet where you can go and learn everything free. As I told you we don’t take any money from anyone. There are some people who are living together are paying a rent for a place and they come to Rome city and have their program in one of the halls where you can meet them every Friday. And if you establish yourself well once you must be established, that’s important, then we have people who can come to India. Once a year we have a program, about a month you can come, but that is, first of all you have to establish yourself. You should be able to give realization to many people then only you can come to India. You have to know one thing; that Sahaja Yoga is not some sort of a club where you can just put a label on your head, it is the becoming. It is nothing artificial, what you become within is the point. But I’m happy to know your question because it seems you are such an ardent seeker.

Question:He says that his Kundalini once was awakened before and it was very painful.

Shri Mataji:Where, not with us. With us? With us? Not possible! Somebody else. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That’s wrong, that’s wrong. If it is painful then you should know it is wrong. All right. It never rises by Itself. We’ll put you right, actually Kundalini never rises by Itself. It’s like a candle. A candle, which is not enlightened, cannot be enlightened by itself. It has to be enlightened first so it can enlighten another light. But those people who are not enlightened and not authorized by God or by Divine, if they try some tricks with Kundalini then there is another force which is down below there, of innocence which gives pain and trouble, not the Kundalini.

Question:If we become sensitive when we feel the vibration, how can I be happy, joyous if around me there is a lot of negativity? It may mean that I am egoistical.

Shri Mataji:No, you see if you are standing in the water, all right, then you are affected by the rising of the water. But if you are in a boat you can see the rising of the water and falling, you are not afraid of it. And if you are a swimmer you can enjoy it. When you are in war with the problem then you are disturbed. But when you become thoughtlessly aware through Kundalini awakening you see, you witness it.

You see it clearly and you also know how to solve the problem because you can see it clearly. You are sensitive in the sense that you record it, like a barometer, and also you know the solution. So it is the state of your being which gives the dynamic force within you, that you can see everything as a witness as well as you can solve the problem. All right?

Question: The seeker heard a speech of Yours and was impressed to learn that if a mother is anxious this can affect the child.

Shri Mataji: All right, but now you do not do it haphazard, you do it properly, and you become a master and then you tell me. Because it’s not that only the mother is anxious but she knows how to cure her child. All right.

Question:We say that everybody should get this realization but he thinks that if one person is not very intelligent he cannot get it.

Shri Mataji:No, no, no, intelligence on the contrary is very bad thing sometimes. It can cheat. Intelligence cheats itself. Innocence is better. We should try to give to as many as possible. If you are a seeker, an honest person, you get it.

– This gentleman here. He says if he can thank you in any way instead of asking any question.

Shri Mataji:So sweet of him, thank you very much. It’s very kind of you. So sweet of him.

Seeker says: I thank you very much for the effort you are doing for everybody.

Shri Mataji:May God bless you, may God bless you. I am happy you care for the good of yours and the good of others. That’s something so good.

(Yogi tells Shri Mataji that the people come from the ashram and perhaps we should ask the new people. Shri Mother then suggest to have one more question.)

Question:What’s the difference between innocence, intelligence and culture?

Shri Mataji: It’s a very long question. I think I have a big tape on that, I have spoken about one hour on that subject, you can get the tape and know.

But it is very easy to understand that intelligence can have also lot of rationality in it, which can explain many of the cruel things people do. Intelligence can be very cruel or can be used for rationalizing cruel things. But innocence can never do cruel things, it loves and it likes loving people also.

And culture is originally came from the idea that we are all collective being and how we should behave towards each other. What should be our behavior to make life more congenial and happy?

But now it has changed completely. People are trying to find out how we can hate better, others. In the name of culture people do all kinds of very, very wrong things, very shameful, indecent things also which does not show that they have any respect for themselves even. You can listen to my lecture Madame you will know what is culture actually is.

Question: Lighting the candle means also to light the knowledge and the power. So is there any guarantee that says that we are going to use this power in the right way?

Shri Mataji: Of course, of course, if you start using the power in the wrong way, disappears. Is only for good, it will always do good. You cannot use it for wrong. It is a power of benevolence.

– They’ve wrote now so many questions. One more. All right, one more now, see now.

Question:He would like to know the difference between the cool breeze we are talking about and the energy of the (sounds like – prana? Brama?) therapists. He is also asking if You have these energies and You can cure people like Christ was doing.

Shri Mataji:You see I don’t want to say anything about that, what I am. I don’t want to talk about Myself because Christ said about Himself whatever was the truth, that He was the Son of God so they crucified Him and I don’t want to get crucified. But I’ve seen the energies that are used by people are not the energy of the Divine because they shake and they feel the heat, and they feel sick and sometimes have a very bad death. That is the energy coming from the left and the right side. One is called as the collective subconscious and another as the collective supraconscious, and they do not know how they do it, they have no knowledge, scientific knowledge how they do it. They do it as if they are possessed by someone, they have no knowledge as to how to do it, what is it.

But in Sahaja Yoga, everyone even a child can say which is the finger burning. Say he says, ‛This the finger burning“, that means there’s a problem on the throat. It’s completely, everything is open knowledge. You need not be a doctor, but you know each and every thing and you are peaceful within and you feel joyous in giving it to others, you don’t get sick.

But for to know more about this supraconscious, collective subconscious and collective supraconscious please come and see these people, they’ll tell you all about it. It’s a big history. Such people might be cured for a while but they get some other disease and some other disease, they’re never permanently cured. But curing is not our job.

We have to give realization and the Divine has common sense, the Divine has common sense. Like the lights, which are not going to give any light to anyone, lamps which are useless, which are not going to give lights, why should they repair? What is important is to make more lamps, which can give light.

So now, I think, let us have the raising of the Kundalini, but there’s no guarantee. One guarantee I’ll give you in case you don’t get it today you’ll get it tomorrow or day after definitely. Only thing you have to do is to take little time and go and meet these people in the programs or follow up. Because it is only for your good and you should respect your realization and your personality. This is your property. I’m just giving you the key and there’s no obligation of any kind. I’m doing it because I love it.

May God bless.